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  #21  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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cubarb1991 cubarb1991 is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by LawStudent View Post
For all the talk about KB struggling, he has thrown 5 interceptions (fairly certain). Watson threw 17 last season. He is protecting the ball reasonably well. He had a couple fumbles, one of which I think was on the OL or playcalling as the FSU defender was in the backfield at the mesh point.

This is a run first team. That is what he is good at. He still isn't getting help from Cain. He dropped a sure TD and had another that hit his hands. All of sudden KB would have thrown for over 200 yards with no interceptions and completed around 70% of his passes.

KB's struggles are missing a throw here and there and receivers not helping him out.
+2
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:55 PM
LawStudent LawStudent is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by TigerNE View Post
Is the point that if you win criticism of your performance is no longer valid? My frustration that drives my criticism is that I don't have the same confidence you may that KB "starts and finishes every game from here on out and stays undefeated." His play is good enough to score 20, 24, 28 points even against good defenses. What happens when that isn't enough? If we play Mayfield, he'll get his points. Maybe not 50 against our D but perhaps 30. Too often we don't get points on drives because of our own mistakes. Just fix that and it won't matter that KB isn't a DW or LJ or whoever.

The upside to me is our offense is good at reacting when they are trying to avoid a hot fire nipping at their butts in order to go ahead of the opponent. We test that a lot.
My point is that it isn't fair to compare the offense under DW4 to this offense. This is an entirely different offense that is going to run the ball more. As another poster pointed out, Renfrow dropped a well-thrown ball across the middle. KB is missing some of the receivers that DW4 had. KB is receiving far too much blame and not enough credit.
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:02 PM
C-Born63 C-Born63 is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by LawStudent View Post
My point is that it isn't fair to compare the offense under DW4 to this offense. This is an entirely different offense that is going to run the ball more. As another poster pointed out, Renfrow dropped a well-thrown ball across the middle. KB is missing some of the receivers that DW4 had. KB is receiving far too much blame and not enough credit.
I agree with this. Totally different offense from last year. DW4 was a once-in-a-generation player, and he did spoil us all a bit with his ability to completely command our offense.

One thing not a lot of people have talked about is how different the WR position is this year. Deon has been a complete bust this year IMO, and Renfrow has really been the only consistent WR this year. We also don't throw to Ray Ray as much as we threw to Artavis. We also don't have Leggett, who was a pretty good TE in our offense.
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:23 PM
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TigerNE TigerNE is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by LawStudent View Post
My point is that it isn't fair to compare the offense under DW4 to this offense. This is an entirely different offense that is going to run the ball more. As another poster pointed out, Renfrow dropped a well-thrown ball across the middle. KB is missing some of the receivers that DW4 had. KB is receiving far too much blame and not enough credit.
I wonder who is comparing DW and KB. I haven't noticed that one. But I do expect - maybe want is the better word - that our offense this year can still be a 3 way threat like last year. Run, pass, mobile QB. So far we have 2 of those covered really well. And down the stretch the third is getting a little worse in my opinion. Or at least not getting any better. If it were getting better - and I don't mean DW level passing threat - it would certainly give us all more confidence that we can get by a team like Miami.

With so many coaches and co-coordinators, can't we get KB even a little more stable in throwing mechanics? Everything else is playoff caliber.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:39 PM
Judge Keller Judge Keller is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

Miami is playing well, but they haven't played anyone of our caliber. Let Miami have all of the positive press right now, they are right where we want them and that will be added motivation for our battle tested team.

I do think we need to do something different on offense. Not drastically different, of course, but definitely mix in some new plays. My hope is that we have purposely left things on the conservative side to keep things basic for all of the new players we are relying on, while not showing too much of our hand. If not, it is concerning that we seem to run only the following plays:

-Read option with Bryant where he keeps it 90% of the time.
-Handoff to a RB who runs off tackle.
-Screen pass to the flats.
-Bomb down the sideline

We rarely run slants across the middle. We rarely throw to the tight end. We rarely run our running backs to the outside. And if you ask me, we run KB way too much given his injuries just a few games ago.

I see other teams running a wide variety of plays. Why does it seem that we only run a few, with zero creativity or imagination? Are our coaches just that basic in their thinking, or do they feel restricted to those plays because of our personnel?
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:55 PM
TigerFaninArkansas TigerFaninArkansas is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

I'm not buying Miami. Clemson will beat them by 20 in the ACC championship game. Georgia, ND and Miami are the biggest frauds. Not worried about Oklahoma either. Wake me when they win a game that matters.
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  #27  
Old 11-12-2017, 06:15 PM
LawStudent LawStudent is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by TigerNE View Post
I wonder who is comparing DW and KB. I haven't noticed that one. But I do expect - maybe want is the better word - that our offense this year can still be a 3 way threat like last year. Run, pass, mobile QB. So far we have 2 of those covered really well. And down the stretch the third is getting a little worse in my opinion. Or at least not getting any better. If it were getting better - and I don't mean DW level passing threat - it would certainly give us all more confidence that we can get by a team like Miami.

With so many coaches and co-coordinators, can't we get KB even a little more stable in throwing mechanics? Everything else is playoff caliber.
It's not a direct comparison, but it's the underlying comparison. Again, you are blaming KB's mechanics, but what about the drops by the receivers? Just add the Cain TD drop and the Renfrow drop over the middle, and KB is sitting over 70% completion and over 200 yards. That's a pretty good day for a QB that has such deficiencies throwing the ball.
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  #28  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

At some point before this season ends we are going to need a passing game to win us a ballgame because the opposition is going to sell out to stop the run and there is absolutely nothing I have seen so far this season that makes me comfortable with that. We do not have a passing game at this point that when the chips are down can win us a ballgame.
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2017, 06:24 AM
Judge Jeff Davis Judge Jeff Davis is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

I agree that Miami is certainly overhyped, and I don’t believe they are “back”. They are dangerous and can definitely beat us, but their tough games have been at home, and this is the same team that recently struggled with UNC, GT and FSU. I definitely don’t see KB helping them out as much as Wimbush did, either.

For all of Bryant’s flaws, he does not throw INTs. That’s a huge plus, and probably why he is playing the majority of the time.

Unfortunately, he doesn’t throw TDs either. We had to replace virtually our entire offense, which I tend to forget. However, Bryant is a really bad passer, and I’d say the worst passer we’ve had since Proctor or Harper. Cain and the WR haven’t been special either, but I give them more of a pass than KB because we’ve seen what McCloud, Renfrow and Cain did with DW.

I think we are just going to win games ugly, but we’re winning. Again, I’m not sold that KB wins the QB job next year, but he’s not going anywhere this year and we’re in a position to compete for the conference and national championship once again. He plays hard, runs tough, and mostly avoids throwing INTs.

We’re just not going to beat a team with the pass, but because we have such good RBs and an elite running QB, I don’t think any one can completely stop us running the ball.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:11 AM
NJTig NJTig is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by TigerAidan View Post
Good thing we don't have to pass it all over the field to win. Were not talking about right now and if Clemson makes it the Playoff they will have almost a month off to get healthy. Next week is big to get healthy. Bryant isn't on his game but he has done it numerous times this year. If he hadn't done it before I could understand questioning him but he has. You have to protect the ball against Miami. While their defense has played well they have beat teams the way they have because those teams have turned the ball over 4 times a game. ND kept turning the ball over and Miami turned those turnovers into points making ND a passing team which they are not. Every week is different. Miami was barely beating bad teams and now they are dominating ranked teams so trying to predict what is going to happen off of prior games makes no sense. You know how many people picked against the Canes thinking they knew who Miami was. Thats why every week is different and just because you played this way last week means nothing to the upcoming week. There are so many things that go into a game on both sides big and small that make trying to figure it out is asinine thats why the name of the game is just win. Just win because you are not going to play a perfect game and sometimes you may play down right awful. We can play the what if game all day long and what if they do this or if they do that. Yes when Oklahoma beat Ohio State wasn't a soul alive that said they were going to lose to Iowa State but thats the way college football is and sitting here thinking you know something because Kelly Bryant is struggling could make you look like an ass if he comes out the next week and throws for 300 yards. Just win thats all that matters.
"ND kept turning the ball over and Miami turned those turnovers into points making ND a passing team which they are not" Sounds like a solid gameplan against us.
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  #31  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:14 AM
NJTig NJTig is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by Judge Keller View Post
Miami is playing well, but they haven't played anyone of our caliber. Let Miami have all of the positive press right now, they are right where we want them and that will be added motivation for our battle tested team.

I do think we need to do something different on offense. Not drastically different, of course, but definitely mix in some new plays. My hope is that we have purposely left things on the conservative side to keep things basic for all of the new players we are relying on, while not showing too much of our hand. If not, it is concerning that we seem to run only the following plays:

-Read option with Bryant where he keeps it 90% of the time.
-Handoff to a RB who runs off tackle.
-Screen pass to the flats.
-Bomb down the sideline

We rarely run slants across the middle. We rarely throw to the tight end. We rarely run our running backs to the outside. And if you ask me, we run KB way too much given his injuries just a few games ago.

I see other teams running a wide variety of plays. Why does it seem that we only run a few, with zero creativity or imagination? Are our coaches just that basic in their thinking, or do they feel restricted to those plays because of our personnel?
Think that sums it up pretty well.
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  #32  
Old 11-13-2017, 09:44 AM
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dgpegues dgpegues is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Keller View Post
Miami is playing well, but they haven't played anyone of our caliber. Let Miami have all of the positive press right now, they are right where we want them and that will be added motivation for our battle tested team.

I do think we need to do something different on offense. Not drastically different, of course, but definitely mix in some new plays. My hope is that we have purposely left things on the conservative side to keep things basic for all of the new players we are relying on, while not showing too much of our hand. If not, it is concerning that we seem to run only the following plays:

-Read option with Bryant where he keeps it 90% of the time.
-Handoff to a RB who runs off tackle.
-Screen pass to the flats.
-Bomb down the sideline

We rarely run slants across the middle. We rarely throw to the tight end. We rarely run our running backs to the outside. And if you ask me, we run KB way too much given his injuries just a few games ago.

I see other teams running a wide variety of plays. Why does it seem that we only run a few, with zero creativity or imagination? Are our coaches just that basic in their thinking, or do they feel restricted to those plays because of our personnel?
It may be a little bit of both...personnel restrictions and keeping the cards close to the chest.

From what I've noticed the last couple of years is that the playbook has been opened up more and more the deeper we get into the season and more noticeably, the post season.

I'm holding out optimism that this is what's happening and the coaching staff is intentionally keeping working plays off of film...and hopefully they're plays that the team is executing successfully in practice so they'll actually work in games.
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2017, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by Judge Jeff Davis View Post
I agree that Miami is certainly overhyped, and I don’t believe they are “back”. They are dangerous and can definitely beat us, but their tough games have been at home, and this is the same team that recently struggled with UNC, GT and FSU. I definitely don’t see KB helping them out as much as Wimbush did, either.

For all of Bryant’s flaws, he does not throw INTs. That’s a huge plus, and probably why he is playing the majority of the time.

Unfortunately, he doesn’t throw TDs either. We had to replace virtually our entire offense, which I tend to forget. However, Bryant is a really bad passer, and I’d say the worst passer we’ve had since Proctor or Harper. Cain and the WR haven’t been special either, but I give them more of a pass than KB because we’ve seen what McCloud, Renfrow and Cain did with DW.

I think we are just going to win games ugly, but we’re winning. Again, I’m not sold that KB wins the QB job next year, but he’s not going anywhere this year and we’re in a position to compete for the conference and national championship once again. He plays hard, runs tough, and mostly avoids throwing INTs.

We’re just not going to beat a team with the pass, but because we have such good RBs and an elite running QB, I don’t think any one can completely stop us running the ball.
I have to add, Bryant has looked really good the few times we've seen him operate the two minute offense. I don't think we should overlook that the passing game is very effective when the other teams' safeties are playing deep.

Would be nice to have a deep ball threat to keep those options on the table during the rest of the game.
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  #34  
Old 11-14-2017, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

Well the ticket brokers are certainly aware of how huge this game is going to be. Without enough IPTAY points to get the Clemson tix, this is going to cost you a chunk. The nosebleed tickets come out to $150, lower deck over $600, 50 yard line $2100!!
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  #35  
Old 11-14-2017, 10:02 AM
drinkoj drinkoj is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by BlueCheese View Post
Well the ticket brokers are certainly aware of how huge this game is going to be. Without enough IPTAY points to get the Clemson tix, this is going to cost you a chunk. The nosebleed tickets come out to $150, lower deck over $600, 50 yard line $2100!!
$85, not premium seats but cheaper than Stubhub. Two days ago they were selling the upper corners for $85, then yesterday morning the rest of the upper deck went on sale. It was kind of weird to me, but I don't really watch these trends much.

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/dr-pep...4A93#efeat4212
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2017, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by drinkoj View Post
$85, not premium seats but cheaper than Stubhub. Two days ago they were selling the upper corners for $85, then yesterday morning the rest of the upper deck went on sale. It was kind of weird to me, but I don't really watch these trends much.

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/dr-pep...4A93#efeat4212
Interesting. I also checked Ticketmaster last night and they were int he $150 range. I'll check it out, thanks for the tip!
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  #37  
Old 11-14-2017, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by drinkoj View Post
$85, not premium seats but cheaper than Stubhub. Two days ago they were selling the upper corners for $85, then yesterday morning the rest of the upper deck went on sale. It was kind of weird to me, but I don't really watch these trends much.

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/dr-pep...4A93#efeat4212
Got tix. Thanks again! $85 is more manageable to justify the need for an oxygen mask...

Hopefully we are among some orange. I'm thinking we will be since it's practically a home game (same driving distance for me at least.)
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  #38  
Old 11-14-2017, 02:57 PM
ColaTownTiger ColaTownTiger is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

I think ND was over rated. Played no one except UGA before the Miami game. Miami also has two conference games to play and get beat up on a bit. They haven't had the strongest schedule either. Clemson is more talented and more proven. If Clemson D is healthy...easy win.
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2017, 04:43 PM
drinkoj drinkoj is offline
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Default Re: Clemson vs Miami ACC Championship

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Originally Posted by BlueCheese View Post
Got tix. Thanks again! $85 is more manageable to justify the need for an oxygen mask...

Hopefully we are among some orange. I'm thinking we will be since it's practically a home game (same driving distance for me at least.)
Now you have to figure out if you're going to use the Parkwiz app to secure a parking space around Bank of America Stadium or walk a little.
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