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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:52 AM
Robert Thorne MacRae's Avatar
Robert Thorne MacRae Robert Thorne MacRae is online now
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Default Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

I have done a lot of thinking in the last 24 hours about Clemson's basketball program and where they should head. It is a difficult issue for sure.

We are all used to being pulled in "to believe" to only have our hearts torn out time after time. We are conditioned like touching a hot stove not to do it again. There are complaints about fans support but I think a lot of this is tied to having our hands burned from touching that hot stove over and over again.

I will not change what I think are realistic expecations for Clemson basketball but I do think there are some difficult decisions for Radakovich.

First my expectations are that if Clemson can make the NCAA tourney every 3 or 4 years I am happy with where the program is.

Many of you know I had called for a coaching change the four or five previous years before last season.

Last year they made the Sweet 16 so I have said this year that I am fine for a few years regardless of what happens.

Now this year, if the Tigers don't make the dance, which I think is the likely outcome then that is certainly a big disappointment.

I don't see any way Radakovich makes a change this year, but I don think there are a couple of things he should consider.

As I said with the team returning not making the dance this year has to be seen as a disappointment. Anyone that looks at what the roster next year has to believe it will be very, very difficult for the team to make the NCAA next year. Next years team will almost certainly take another step back.

So Radakovich has to not only consider the current state of the program but also where the program will be after next season. There will certainly be some heat back on the program next year. When Radakovich anticipates that heat and looks at the likely outcome on the court for next season that is certainly something to consider. If you think it is likely that next year is a rebuilding year and you will have a large number of fans calling for a change next year if the results are as expected do you wait?

Just a few thoughts on the program.
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:02 AM
SSMITH2554 SSMITH2554 is online now
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

I guess it's like others, do we have commits/recruits coming that will help us? Anything in the pipeline? And if coaching change is the answer, who can we get that will be better and what can we do to keep him here? Are the operation facilities where they need to be?
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:19 AM
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Robert Thorne MacRae Robert Thorne MacRae is online now
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

The facility upgrades have now been in place for a few years.

Another factor is how will the success of Amanda Butler and how big of a change she made with the women's program factor into the decision process.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:02 AM
LawStudent LawStudent is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

Top 100 PG is on the way as part of the 35th best recruiting class in the nation, which was 6th in the ACC. Trapp returns along with Simms, Tyson, Newman, Jemison, William, Baehre (transfer).


I believe we will see a transfer as well. It's not a bad roster.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:51 AM
AllOrange67 AllOrange67 is online now
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

It ultimately comes down to recruiting and honestly we are not gonna get the high 4 star or 5 star guys in basketball for the same reason that Duke is not going to get them in football.
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:51 AM
carlos carlos is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

The expectation with a senior laden team, regardless of record, is that you have leadership and pull through in the close games more often than not. With so much experience leaving and already lowered expectations for next year, you may as well make the change now. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for more of a disaster next year, and then we will find ourselves in this exact situation in 3-4 more years. Wash, rinse, repeat.



I don't follow our basketball team that closely, so I am not going to speak on specifics. But the trend isn't good.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:39 AM
Vandy86 Vandy86 is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

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Originally Posted by AllOrange67 View Post
It ultimately comes down to recruiting and honestly we are not gonna get the high 4 star or 5 star guys in basketball for the same reason that Duke is not going to get them in football.
I agree that Duke is always going to get the high stars. But what about football?, Cutliffe has done a great job at Duke which is probably a worse football job than Clemson is basketball wise. Duke has been very consistent making bowl games and winning 7 to 9 games a year. I think he even won the Coastal one year. It goes to show that a good coach can get it done at a place people say it can't be done. Brownell simply has only had one good season (last year) at Clemson, and no I don't give him credit for his first year with Purnell's players. And next years players are not nearly as talented as this year's barring a great transfer or superstar freshman.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:08 PM
CUAg98 CUAg98 is offline
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Default One possession games

We are 18-40 in one possession games (3 points or less) since Brownell has been the coach. In no season have we ever won more than we lost, but we did have even records in 2013-14 and 2014-15 (2-2 and 4-4 respectively). Since 2015-16, we are 7-20 in these games.

I thought maybe this was due to the "Tobacco Road bias" and that we've always lost more than we won in these close games, but a review of records during Purnell's time seems to refute that theory. During Purnell's tenure, we were 21-18 in one possession games. We were able to win more than we lost in 4 of his 7 years.

What do you think the problem is during Brownell's tenure? Just bad play calling, putting too much pressure on players at the end of the game, lack of a go-to hero, or just extreme bad luck? If we were closer to the 50/50 average, it would have resulted in at least 1 additional win pretty much every year!
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  #9  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:16 PM
TigerFaninArkansas TigerFaninArkansas is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Thorne MacRae View Post
The facility upgrades have now been in place for a few years.

Another factor is how will the success of Amanda Butler and how big of a change she made with the women's program factor into the decision process.
A few years is a stretch. This past recruiting cycle was the first one affected by the upgrades. And Clemson for the first time in a while had a top 40 recruiting class. If that level of recruiting continues, we'll be making the tourney every other year or so. Clemson will be back in the conversation again in 2 years. I expect them to make an NIT run next year, they won't be as bad as you think.
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:18 PM
TigerFaninArkansas TigerFaninArkansas is offline
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Default Re: One possession games

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Originally Posted by CUAg98 View Post
We are 18-40 in one possession games (3 points or less) since Brownell has been the coach. In no season have we ever won more than we lost, but we did have even records in 2013-14 and 2014-15 (2-2 and 4-4 respectively). Since 2015-16, we are 7-20 in these games.

I thought maybe this was due to the "Tobacco Road bias" and that we've always lost more than we won in these close games, but a review of records during Purnell's time seems to refute that theory. During Purnell's tenure, we were 21-18 in one possession games. We were able to win more than we lost in 4 of his 7 years.

What do you think the problem is during Brownell's tenure? Just bad play calling, putting too much pressure on players at the end of the game, lack of a go-to hero, or just extreme bad luck? If we were closer to the 50/50 average, it would have resulted in at least 1 additional win pretty much every year!
The ACC was pretty crappy during the Purnell tenure, hence Clemson's early exit in the tourney each year.
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  #11  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:44 PM
Tiggershark Tiggershark is online now
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

I have been on the fence on what to do about Brownell for a while. I stood by him during many seasons of disappointment and felt many times that luck wasn't on his side. 2 years ago I felt that regardless of his relationship with Zion, that he should have been let go. I thought it was stupid to retain Brownell on the decision of an uncommitted 17 year old kid. Last year it appeared that Brownell had turned a corner so to speak and seemed to show that he was building something. Not a top 10 program but a solid top 30 program. This season has been a major disappointment. The lack of energy early and throughout the season from both players and coaches is bewildering. The constant fundamental mistakes in crucial situations. Brownell's inability to rally the fanbase. The writing is on the wall. Personally, I think Brownell is a nice guy, that loves Clemson and has been a solid representative of Clemson University. And to this day I think he has had the most unlucky tenor of any coach I have known during his time at Clemson. But at some point you have to create your own luck.

I feel it is time to part ways with Brownell. Sometimes a change is needed just to bring new energy to a program and unite a fanbase that has become disinterested and detached.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: One possession games

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Originally Posted by TigerFaninArkansas View Post
The ACC was pretty crappy during the Purnell tenure, hence Clemson's early exit in the tourney each year.
At the time, the Big East was definitely the stronger league, mostly do to numbers, but I don't think I'd say that the ACC was "pretty crappy". While the league was much smaller we still had to contend with Duke, UNC and Maryland. Not to mention both Wake Forest and GT being much better during OP's tenure then what they are now. I may be mistaken, but i also remember Dave Leito having a pretty good team back in '06/07. Also, the end of OP's time coincided with Leonard Hamilton getting FSU established as a perennial tourney team.
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Last edited by Cutigergrad04; 03-14-2019 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:12 PM
AllOrange67 AllOrange67 is online now
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

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Originally Posted by Vandy86 View Post
I agree that Duke is always going to get the high stars. But what about football?, Cutliffe has done a great job at Duke which is probably a worse football job than Clemson is basketball wise. Duke has been very consistent making bowl games and winning 7 to 9 games a year. I think he even won the Coastal one year. It goes to show that a good coach can get it done at a place people say it can't be done. Brownell simply has only had one good season (last year) at Clemson, and no I don't give him credit for his first year with Purnell's players. And next years players are not nearly as talented as this year's barring a great transfer or superstar freshman.

Cutcliff's record probably compares pretty well to Brownell's. I would say it's alot harder in basketball as well because you only start 5 players vs 22 in Football. Just the percentages say you have more of a chance for more guys to make an impact in football. Say for example we had landed Zion, that 1 player would have probably won 6+ additional games this year and we are not having this discussion.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:14 PM
TigerFaninArkansas TigerFaninArkansas is offline
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Default Re: One possession games

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Originally Posted by Cutigergrad04 View Post
At the time, the Big East was definitely the stronger league, mostly do to numbers, but I don't think I'd say that the ACC was "pretty crappy". While the league was much smaller we still had to contend with Duke, UNC and Maryland. Not to mention both Wake Forest and GT being much better during OP's tenure then what they are now. I may be mistaken, but i also remember Dave Leito having a pretty good team back in '06/07. Also, the end of OP's time coincided with Leonard Hamilton getting FSU established as a perennial tourney team.
By ACC standards it was pretty bad. The ACC Brownell has had to contend with is more difficult than in the Purnell tenure.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: One possession games

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Originally Posted by TigerFaninArkansas View Post
By ACC standards it was pretty bad. The ACC Brownell has had to contend with is more difficult than in the Purnell tenure.
I think the ACC has been up and down during both coaches tenure and with unequal schedules it's hard for me to really say one way or the other regarding who has had to deal with a tougher ACC schedule. Just like it is now, I don't think there has ever been an easy night in the ACC.

I'm sure it would take some time, but I'd love to look at our coaches record each year against teams that make the tournament, both in conference and out of conference.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

I donít think making the argument that the rest of the ACC has improved faster than we have is the one you want to make for Brownell.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

That NC State team that Clemson lost to twice this year was not a very good team. The Miami team was not either.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

Here's what I think will happen. Brownell is still our coach next year which will be a long tough year because it's a rebuilding job. Nobody on our current squad makes me think they will break out next year. In fact I'm not even sure we get to the NIT next year and we might even end up with a losing record.

His seat is going to be pretty hot but I think he'll get one more year after that because the expectation for next year is pretty low. The following year won't be great either and finally DRad will have to make a move.

I think this thing gets extended out 2 more years unfortunately.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

Brad is Tommy Bowden. Time to move on and make next year the rebuilding year with a high energy young coach.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:38 AM
tigerpawgt tigerpawgt is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts on Clemson basketball

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Brad is Tommy Bowden. Time to move on and make next year the rebuilding year with a high energy young coach.
I kind of agree, but for DRad thatís about deciding how much buyout he wants to pay. Secondly does paying the higher buyout this year get him access to the best possible replacement coach and staff or does he wait to see whoís available next year. Thatís his job to decide whatís best, but no matter what is done I think recruiting is going to be negatively impacted beyond the current incoming players. I have to believe recruits are beginning to see him as a lame duck coach. Realistically, a poor season next year will only cement that situation.
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