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  #1  
Old 07-02-2022, 08:03 PM
atxtiger atxtiger is offline
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Default Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

Here are the teams in order of desirability:

1) ND - B1G wants them badly and they can pick an 18th team to join them (probably Stanford). SEC would be stupid not to take ND, but ND doesn't want SEC.

2) UNC - You could actually make a case for the Heels at 1 because BOTH the SEC and B1G want them. UVA would be a likely partner if they go B1G; Va Tech if they go SEC.

So, at this point, you've got 4 teams (ND,UNC, and their "partners") that are NOT Clemson in line for slots. After this there are a few other teams that still have more appeal than Clemson.

5) Oregon - Nike money and the pacific NW make them very appealing for the B1G. SEC is probably not an option. Washington is their likely partner.

6) Oklahoma State - Not an option for the B1G because of academics, but might go the SEC before Clemson because of pressure from OU and big oil money. Clemson *could* be a partner here, but so could FSU, Miami, or Louisville.

7) Duke/GT - Both great academic fits for the B1G and Duke brings a big national brand in Basketball while supplying a weak opponent for football. GT would be a foray into SEC territory.

Basically, I think Clemson's only shot is the SEC and even there we may be 5th or 6th in line.

Best thing that could happen for Clemson at this point would be for the B1G to snag ND/Stanford and UNC/UVA. That would put pressure on the SEC to go beyond 16 teams and break up the ACC grant of rights.
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Old 07-02-2022, 08:11 PM
Robert Thorne MacRae's Avatar
Robert Thorne MacRae Robert Thorne MacRae is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

Clemson is higher on that list for sure. Remember this is mostly all about football.
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Old 07-02-2022, 09:42 PM
tigerpawgt tigerpawgt is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

This time I really think academics is taking a back seat. This is all about the media rights and revenue. Sure there are some low hanging fruit where academics is aligned but if itís not going to move the revenue target then move onto the next school that does. If any conference is going to expand to 20+ schools the presidents are going to make some compromises. These are athletic associations, not an affiliation of dozens of Dr Fauciís bragging about how many papers theyíve authored or patents theyíve been granted.
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Old 07-02-2022, 10:26 PM
atxtiger atxtiger is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by Robert Thorne MacRae View Post
Clemson is higher on that list for sure. Remember this is mostly all about football.
Robert, based on what Iím hearing ND (plus one) is the B1Gís first ďpickĒ and UNC (plus one) is the SECís first. Clemson wouldnít be the plus one in either case. Are you hearing something different?
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Old 07-02-2022, 10:38 PM
atxtiger atxtiger is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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This time I really think academics is taking a back seat. This is all about the media rights and revenue. Sure there are some low hanging fruit where academics is aligned but if itís not going to move the revenue target then move onto the next school that does. If any conference is going to expand to 20+ schools the presidents are going to make some compromises. These are athletic associations, not an affiliation of dozens of Dr Fauciís bragging about how many papers theyíve authored or patents theyíve been granted.
Donít underestimate the B1G ego of the B1G presidents. The whole AAU thing matters to them and they would love to add UNC and UVA or Duke. Would expand the footprint into the South while still allowing them to thumb their noses at the SEC.

In fact, I wouldnít be surprised if they offered the SEC a swap with Vandy and Nebraska! (Just kidding about this part, but not the first part)
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Old 07-02-2022, 10:56 PM
tigerphins tigerphins is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by atxtiger View Post
Don’t underestimate the B1G ego of the B1G presidents. The whole AAU thing matters to them and they would love to add UNC and UVA or Duke. Would expand the footprint into the South while still allowing them to thumb their noses at the SEC.

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they offered the SEC a swap with Vandy and Nebraska! (Just kidding about this part, but not the first part)
B1G just added UCLA & USC which fit academically. If they add ND, I can’t imagine why they would take UVA or Duke over a school that’s actually beaten the SEC’s best and that doubles their odds to add a National Championship to their belt. I mean, they just added Nebraska & Oklahoma. They didn’t do that for academics. We’re ranked a sizable distance higher incidentally.

Just go with what makes sense. All this conference shuffling is happening bc of football, not academics.

Last edited by tigerphins; 07-02-2022 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:58 AM
TigerAidan TigerAidan is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

Not trying to be mean but I doubt you have any knowledge of what conferences are thinking behind closed doors. This is about football and only football. The SEC is going to break the bank because of the product they put on the field. Put Clemson in the mix and that makes the product that much more. Your looking at individual brands and that is not what this is about. This has everything to do with football power as a whole. The SEC isn't about to break the bank because of individual brands but because the brand of football in that league is considered the best. Add Clemson to any league and the brand of football as a whole only increases. People want to see the best of the best play. They want to see Clemson and Bama play. They want to see Clemson and Ohio State play. They want to see Clemson and Notre Dame play. You can't tell me that if either league could take Notre Dame and Clemson they wouldn't cut there right arm off for it. No other team in the league brings that right now. This is about football prestige and Clemson is at the top of that list right now.
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Old 07-03-2022, 08:07 AM
Ken Ken is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by TigerAidan View Post
Not trying to be mean but I doubt you have any knowledge of what conferences are thinking behind closed doors. This is about football and only football. The SEC is going to break the bank because of the product they put on the field. Put Clemson in the mix and that makes the product that much more. Your looking at individual brands and that is not what this is about. This has everything to do with football power as a whole. The SEC isn't about to break the bank because of individual brands but because the brand of football in that league is considered the best. Add Clemson to any league and the brand of football as a whole only increases. People want to see the best of the best play. They want to see Clemson and Bama play. They want to see Clemson and Ohio State play. They want to see Clemson and Notre Dame play. You can't tell me that if either league could take Notre Dame and Clemson they wouldn't cut there right arm off for it. No other team in the league brings that right now. This is about football prestige and Clemson is at the top of that list right now.
I see your point but but there is more to it than football. If it were only football UCLA or USC or even Texas would not have been picked.

I could see UNC and UVA as likely choices. I could also see the BIG needing a top tier football team as other than Ohio the actual football played in their conference is not scaring anyone
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Old 07-03-2022, 08:40 AM
tigerpawgt tigerpawgt is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

Just remember every team added to a conference dilutes the revenue share. They arenít in the business of taking a smaller net because of a basketball school with high academics. Fox and ESPN want viewers and the schools want the payout. It will be interesting to watch it unfold, but like I posted before thereís still low hanging fruit to pick where a conference gets both. Itís later on where the compromises will be made (or not made).
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2022, 12:08 PM
tigerphins tigerphins is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by Ken View Post
I see your point but but there is more to it than football. If it were only football UCLA or USC or even Texas would not have been picked.

I could see UNC and UVA as likely choices. I could also see the BIG needing a top tier football team as other than Ohio the actual football played in their conference is not scaring anyone
?? This isnít just about 2021 final rankings. Success is fluid. USC & Texas are storied blue-blood programs with 10 titles between them since 1962. Texas is the most valuable program by net worth and now has huge potential with NIL. The Texas football market is massive. USC just added a hot coach, has huge potential with NIL, and is in the countryís largest market by population [seeing as NY doesnít have a worthwhile program to care about]. USC is an enormous football get for the B1G and immediately becomes their 2nd most valuable program behind OSU. UCLA has promise under Chip Kelly and gives the B1G total control over the LA market. B1G also gets the Rose Bowl/Coliseum and the NFLís hottest stadium [SoFi]. You maybe need UCLA to get USC [possible package deal]Ö and USC probably helps you get NDÖ or helps make Oregon/Washington a nice fit if they canít get ND.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:11 PM
Ken Ken is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by tigerphins View Post
?? This isnít just about 2021 final rankings. Success is fluid. USC & Texas are storied blue-blood programs with 10 titles between them since 1962. Texas is the most valuable program by net worth and now has huge potential with NIL. The Texas football market is massive. USC just added a hot coach, has huge potential with NIL, and is in the countryís largest market by population [seeing as NY doesnít have a worthwhile program to care about]. USC is an enormous football get for the B1G and immediately becomes their 2nd most valuable program behind OSU. UCLA has promise under Chip Kelly and gives the B1G total control over the LA market. B1G also gets the Rose Bowl/Coliseum and the NFLís hottest stadium [SoFi]. You maybe need UCLA to get USC [possible package deal]Ö and USC probably helps you get NDÖ or helps make Oregon/Washington a nice fit if they canít get ND.
When was the last time UCLA did anything in football? Never? Texas and USC maybe 15 years? Your logic is still exquisite!
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:59 PM
tigerphins tigerphins is online now
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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When was the last time UCLA did anything in football? Never? Texas and USC maybe 15 years? Your logic is still exquisite!
USC just finished 3rd in 2016.

It takes a pretty ignorant mentality to believe Texas & USC could never return to greatness. By your logic, Clemson had a fork stuck in it in the 90ís & 2000ís and never re-emerged as a top program. I guess Bama was done in the 90ís-2000ís as well after 8 seasons of 7 or fewer wins. SEC must be so disappointed about still having UGA after 4 straight yrs of 6 or less wins from 93-96. I canít believe the SEC added Oklahoma despite going unranked for 6 straight yrs from 94-99 prior to the Bob Stoops era. Theyíve only had 13 top 6 finishes since then.

USC is the only other program besides Bama & us to have a dynasty over the past 25 yrs, arguably their 2nd one. Texas was close to a dynasty under Mack Brown. Both blue-blood programs have the potential to recruit with the best and hire with the best, in addition to owning top markets. Anyone who thinks the additions of Texas & USC arenít about football needs his head examined.
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Old 07-03-2022, 09:38 PM
Tiger80 Tiger80 is offline
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Post Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by atxtiger View Post
Here are the teams in order of desirability:

1) ND - B1G wants them badly and they can pick an 18th team to join them (probably Stanford). SEC would be stupid not to take ND, but ND doesn't want SEC.

2) UNC - You could actually make a case for the Heels at 1 because BOTH the SEC and B1G want them. UVA would be a likely partner if they go B1G; Va Tech if they go SEC.

So, at this point, you've got 4 teams (ND,UNC, and their "partners") that are NOT Clemson in line for slots. After this there are a few other teams that still have more appeal than Clemson.

5) Oregon - Nike money and the pacific NW make them very appealing for the B1G. SEC is probably not an option. Washington is their likely partner.

6) Oklahoma State - Not an option for the B1G because of academics, but might go the SEC before Clemson because of pressure from OU and big oil money. Clemson *could* be a partner here, but so could FSU, Miami, or Louisville.

7) Duke/GT - Both great academic fits for the B1G and Duke brings a big national brand in Basketball while supplying a weak opponent for football. GT would be a foray into SEC territory.

Basically, I think Clemson's only shot is the SEC and even there we may be 5th or 6th in line.

Best thing that could happen for Clemson at this point would be for the B1G to snag ND/Stanford and UNC/UVA. That would put pressure on the SEC to go beyond 16 teams and break up the ACC grant of rights.
I donít get your explanation at all. The move to super conferences is entirely about football. It isnít about any other sports because they donít generate the kind of TV revenue that the Big Ten and SEC are earning. TV networks want viewers. Clemson games bring in a lot of viewers especially when they play big time opponents.
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Old 07-03-2022, 09:40 PM
Tiger80 Tiger80 is offline
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Post Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by Robert Thorne MacRae View Post
Clemson is higher on that list for sure. Remember this is mostly all about football.
+1 Absolutely, Robert. Itís all about football, because football is the thing that generates the enormous TV contracts.
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Old 07-03-2022, 11:33 PM
Johnstone86 Johnstone86 is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by Ken View Post
I see your point but but there is more to it than football. If it were only football UCLA or USC or even Texas would not have been picked.

I could see UNC and UVA as likely choices. I could also see the BIG needing a top tier football team as other than Ohio the actual football played in their conference is not scaring anyone
Only in pretend land. This is about what makes the most $ by 80+%

Thatís it!
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Old 07-04-2022, 08:06 AM
tigerpawgt tigerpawgt is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

If this was all about an expanded footprint that lights up the academics slot machine, Warren would have locked up the San Fran market with Stanford and Cal-Berkley. No, instead they lock up the much more lucrative LA market. On field results are really not that imperative. UCLA and USC have strong football histories, and plenty of viewers interested to watch them nationwide.
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Old 07-04-2022, 12:29 PM
hptiger3 hptiger3 is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

I don't think the move was to acquire TV markets per se as much as the Big 10 will acquire a region with taking USC and UCLA. Even people who have hated the 2 schools in the past will tune in to see them play the Big 10 schools. This is why I think the Big 10 is giving UNC the hard sell behind closed doors.I know they already have Rutgers and Maryland, but stealing a southern ACC school or two will make them nationwide
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Old 07-04-2022, 01:05 PM
atxtiger atxtiger is offline
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Default Re: Clemson is 4th in line, AT BEST, for an SEC/B1G slot

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Originally Posted by Tiger80 View Post
I don’t get your explanation at all. The move to super conferences is entirely about football. It isn’t about any other sports because they don’t generate the kind of TV revenue that the Big Ten and SEC are earning. TV networks want viewers. Clemson games bring in a lot of viewers especially when they play big time opponents.
It is MOSTLY about football, but ultimately it’s about brands, especially brands that generate viewers. Clemson does very well in this department and *should* be one of the top four brands considered by both the B1G and the SEC. Though they haven’t had as much football success, UNC and Oregon are both nationwide brands on par with Clemson.

But it’s also about egos and that’s where Clemson doesn’t do as well. Ego won’t put a Duke or Stanford ahead of Clemson, but it *could* tip the scales in favor of UNC or Oregon over Clemson, especially with the B1G. Don’t underestimate the ability of northerners to look down their noses at “rednecks” like Clemson.

Bottom line, we aren’t going to the B1G but we’ve got a good shot at the SEC, especially if they add 4 or more teams.
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